Ok, I really REALLY don’t get why everybody is so excited to criticize the U.S. Military. When was the last time I listened to the news on my way to work and not heard a story about some investigation into a U.S. solider shooting up a car speeding through a checkpoint, abuse this, abuse that… And now, abuse at Guantanamo Bay has been declared again and the U.S. has been compared to Nazis yet again–a nut brain statement usually reserved for big-mounted hollywood stars or Bush hating lefties–but this time, by a one of our own U.S. Senators!
Can we please get some perspective, for crying out loud!? When was there a time in the history of the world, that prisoners of war have been treated so humanely? We allow them to have Korans and practice their religion (the very religion that was cause of their attacking us in the first place, I might add), they have special Islam-friendly meals, and the conditions are far, far better than say, a cave where angry hooded men are waiting to cut your head off.
Abuse, you say? Being forced to listen to loud rap music? Torture? PLEASE. Geneva Convention violations! Really? Well, if we really did abide by the Geneva Convention, they would all have been executed by now. Yup, that’s right–the fact that they tried to blend in with civilians, hid their weapons in civilian homes and mosques, and were not uniformed soliders makes them eligible for the firing squad treatment.
Now, I’m sure that the U.S. is doing worse than what we know of to interrogate these guys–you can guess that just by watching an episode of 24. But even so, is that really grounds for a comparison with the Nazi regime, who killed millions in their death camps? How many have died at Gitmo? The answer is 0. Not surprisingly, a particular group is a little miffed. No matter where you fall politically, you’ve got to agree that any such comparison, when stated as an actual argument on the senate floor, is just a very, very stupid thing to say!
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Sounds like it’s time to invoke Godwin’s Law!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwins_law
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I agree. It’s like all the eyes are on the US because its the most powerful and influential country in the world. Everyone hates who’s on top, who’s got the wealth, who’s got the power, merely because we live in a world where everyone wants more, where everyone is envious others–in this case, the rest of the world is envious of the US. Everyone complains about how the US is always getting involved with other countrie’s affairs and how we have no right to. Let’s not forget how the US was a long time isolationist country, and that got us no where. I think anyone, especially countries more fortunate SHOULD get involved with other countries that are less fortunate, especially if those countries are under oppression, poverty, war, genocide, dictators, etc. The Bible calls us to help the poor, help the needy, protect the oppressed. Let’s not forget that the US id the largest contributor to humanitarian aid across the world. Sure the US does have some problems, it’s not perfect, its leaders aren’t perfect, who is? But at least the US government has the balls to step up and help those who can’t help themselves. At least the US is willing to do something. US is gonna make mistkaes, who doesn’t, but lets not dwell on them more than what the US is trying to contribute. That’s what I think at least.
An interesting quote my friend at Biola said was this, “The US should take over this world and their first strike should be dropping a nuke right on the dome of rock.”
I thought that was funny.
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There are those who always want to believe the worst in America, and those who always want to believe the best. So the true answer probably lies somewhere in the middle. America’s power allows it to do some awesome things, and some horrible things. As Uncle Ben says: “With great power comes great responsibility.”
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The “Nazi” remark was way out of line. However, my biggest problem with Gitmo is that there are a large majority of those prisoners that are INNOCENT. Yes. Most of them (maybe all) haven’t been even tried in a court of law – something we Americans uphold. So, is it right for our government to torture people who have never been found guilty? I mean, we don’t even do that to REAL American prisoners. If Bush and Co. want these speculations to stop, then let them release prisoner records out to the public. See, there are secrets that they don’t want the public to know – and it probably doesn’t have anything to do with National Security.
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Dave,
How do you know they’re innocent? Have you taken a trip down there? Were you in Afghanistan being shot at by these men? Yes, that’s where most of them were captured, in Afghanistan, shooting at U.S. troops. Granted, they need a trial. But what kind? No one has made any suggestions… They aren’t U.S. citizens and yet they should not be tried in Afghanistan. Like Tim said, these men were given the Koran, they are allowed to pray and practice their religion openly. I doubt a U.S. troop (let alone citizen) would be given the same opportunity. People can speculate all they want. We still don’t know what goes on at Area 51…
As far as the Geneva Convention goes, these men wouldn’t be covered to begin with:
A. Prisoners of war, in the sense of the present Convention, are persons belonging to one of the following categories, who have fallen into the power of the enemy:
1. Members of the armed forces of a Party to the conflict as well as members of militias or volunteer corps forming part of such armed forces.
2. Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions:
(a) That of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates;
(b) That of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance;
(c) That of carrying arms openly;
(d) That of conducting their operations in accordance with the laws and customs of war.
All I hear from both sides (that are complaining) is the fact that this is wrong and we need to do something. But no one ever offers suggestions.
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Yes, I heard that many are innocent, and I don’t think any of them have been tried in a court of law. While I do agree that they need to detain only those who deserve to be there, I’m not so sure our justice system would be the best way to find that out. Heh. Speaking of being trials, when is Saddam going to be tried? Now that Martha and Michael’s trials are over, we need something new…
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Stephan,
I served in the military. I know the rules and terms of the Geneva convention. Bottom line is, the U.S. prides itself in abiding international law and setting the standards of decency for the rest of the world. While no one really knows who’s guilty and who’s not – thanks to our government – I don’t think it’s decent for Americans to TORTURE any prisoner. Saddam is being tried. These people deserve the same right. If they’re found guilty, torture them all you want. But until then, they should be untouchable. Telling the American people that these prisoners don’t fall in terms of the Geneva convention is a loop-hole that is being abused.
Rumsfeld released hundreds of prisoners from Abu Ghraib after that whole prisoner abuse fiasco. Do you think he would have released those people if they were terrorists? I believe those people were taken with good reason, but none of them were guilty and violent criminals. Otherwise, they wouldn’t have been released.
Based on that, how are we to believe that everyone in Gitmo is guilty? Is it fair that there are innocent prisoners getting tortured? And for what? If they are from Afghanistan, can they actually help locate Bin Laden’s where-abouts? What’s the purpose for their coercion and torture? These are things that Bush & Co. need to tell the American people.
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But what is this torture you speak of? I have heard nothing that even sounds like torture or comes close to Abu Ghraib. Do you have links to news articles because I’d like to read this. The only “torture” I know about is the throwing of the Koran into the toilet. Are you assuming these men are being tortured.
I’ve read a few places that they are actually treated very well. Some former guards that were allowed to speak about their time there said nothing to the effect of torture. Granted they were probably censored, but still, I believe they would have spoke out if there was real torture present.